Meta Attackers when Dodging

TLDR; If you are good at dodging, you want to get Machamp and Exeggutor. Also, Jynx and Gengar have a place in the meta.

In my previous calculations, I assumed zero dodging as if attackers would get Hydro Pumped in the face very time.

After hearing reports from KingKwongg that Machamp is really good against Blissey, I started to wonder if it’s because of dodging.

I’m in the process of updating GoTypeChart to see what happens if you:

  • Don’t dodge
  • Dodge charge moves
  • Dodge everything

Turns out that two attackers emerge, the more you dodge.

Machamp – Counter / Dynamic Punch

You can use this against Blissey, Snorlax, and Tyrannitar. Time to change my buddy!

Machamp didn’t show up in the results because of Fairy and Psychic. But if you’re good at dodging, type vulnerability doesn’t matter as much.

Against Blissey/Snorlax, the best attackers are Alakazam, Dragonite, Machamp, and Flareon. But among these four, Machamp is arguably the best choice because he’s the only one with good stamina and good weave.

Exeggutor – Bullet Seed / Solar Beam

Previously, I recommended Venusaur. But if you dodge, Exeggutor pulls ahead.

So Exeggutor would be your counter for Rhydon and Vaporeon.

Other surprises

Jynx with Frost Breath and Avalanche is actually better than Cloyster if you dodge everything. Jynx hits harder with a higher base attack stat. And Cloyster’s defense is downplayed the more you dodge.

Gengar…….. I keep arguing with people on Facebook “don’t dust Gengar”. BUT… if you dodge everything, Gengar makes a decent all-around attacker. Gengar is almost never the optimal counter. But if you’re awesome at dodging and you had to choose only one Pokemon to blindly use in every situation, Gengar is that kind of attacker.

Pinsir. Surprisingly, Pinsir is slightly better than Scizor at countering Exeggutor (if you dodge everything, that is). Probably because Bug Bite is better than Fury Cutter. Sounds crazy, right? Still, nobody believes in Pinsir enough to dust him. And neither will I.

Final thoughts

Between Machamp and Exeggutor, you can take down most gym defenders. (Just need to add Jolteon, Cloyster, and Scizor, and all your bases are covered)

Meta Attackers when Dodging

GoTypeChart Update

GoTypeChart v1.5.9 has been submitted for review. It has two features:

  1. Includes legacy mons
  2. It brings back the “effective against” section

Legacy mons

Legacy mons have been added. GoTypeChart treats them as completely different Pokemon. This was the fastest way to enter data without completely rewriting a lot of the app logic.

I considered mixing old and new moves together on the same screen. But it’s impossible for Dragonite to have both Dragon Tail (new) with Dragon Claw (old). So a total separation feels a little cleaner, to me at least.

There’s the problem of spamming the main screen with duplicates of every mon. So I just created legacy versions for certain meta-relevant mons. I also grayed out and added an (L) to the legacy ones.


Machamp vs Tyranitar

The new Machamp Counter / Dynamic Punch is better than the legacy Karate Chop / Cross Chop.

Note: I think I went over this before, but Dynamic Punch is better than Close Combat (check out prior posts on damage-per-bar, and not blindly going with damage-over-duration-animation).



Teach an old dog new tricks

In general, the best attackers are Gen 1 mons with new movesets. For example, Dragonite DT/O is even better than the legacy Dragon Breath / Dragon Claw.


Two noteworthy exceptions to this rule are:

  • Poliwrath, which now has two fighting moves.
  • Exeggutor, which now has dual grass moves. Also, Confusion got a major buff.

New Cloyster is slightly better

Cloyster’s Avalanche move is better than Blizzard. The benefit is only slight, so for now I’m going to keep using my legacy Cloyster until I re-do the rest of my roster.


New improved Jynx

Jynx is not just a pretty face. She’s got some moves too:

  • Avalanche is the best Ice move
  • Confusion got buffed

If you don’t have any Shellder nests, this could be your chance to put those Smoochum’s to work. She’s situational as a runner-up Dragonite counter, and against an Exeggutor with a purely Psychic moveset.



How do I use certain movesets?

In the last update, I ripped out the old “effective against” section. This section showed the best situations to use a particular moveset. The reason is because the results were flooded with weak Gen 2 mons like Murkrow.

What caused this issue was that I tweaked my formula to factor in base attack and defense stats. And I wasn’t properly filtering mons from consideration (who cares if Dragonite is good against Weedle).

These issues should be fixed in the upcoming update:

  • There’s a number in the top right that adds up the combined DoT of the QM and CM
  • If you tap on that number, it opens up a list showing you how to best use that moveset

The list only includes the top 25 or so defenders.

And the number is the “average advantage”. This is the DoT differential, averaged over all defender movesets. If that makes sense.

So, a good question to ask is “How do I use Gengar?”. It has a great attack stat and high damage moves, after all. Sadly, it’s low defense and terrible type advantage makes it pretty useless in this meta. It’s best advantage is vs Exeggutor (18.0). But this pales to what Scizor can do (28.7).


Field data validation

All this app analysis is theoretical. Field experience is what matters in the end.

So far, I’ve heard reports that Machamp C/DP is really good against Blissey. Machamp doesn’t make the list in the app, because Blissey’s Psychic and Fairy moves are good vs fighting.

I think people using Machamp are dodging well, and this kind of negates Blissey’s return damage. I wonder if I should add a toggle switch to show results if you were to dodge:

  • charge moves only
  • all moves
  • no moves (the app’s current formula)

User beware

The app doesn’t factor in Stamina at all. This means you’ll see the likes of Espeon and Flareon (low HP) in the Blissey counter list, but not Machamp and Rhydon (high HP).

The app is really designed for damage exchange and potion efficiency. Which is what I care about most when trying to take down a level 10 gym a day.

So keep the mon’s stamina in the back of your mind, and make sure the results make sense. Especially with those extreme cases like Blissey and Snorlax.


GoTypeChart Update

Revisiting Vaporeon

TLDR; Anything but Water Pulse.

Vaporeon is still going to play a big part of the current meta. It has the 7th highest CP, and it’s really easy to get.

The highest damage moveset is Hydro Pump (Water Gun is the only quick move). This has a damage-over-time of 21.6.

Aqua Tail comes in close with a DoT of 19.9. This is 3 bars, so you can cast it more often. After some gym battling so far, I find Aqua Tail harder to dodge. Especially with my super slow Venusaur.

The ideal counter to Vaporeon is Dragonite with Dragon Tail / Outrage, with an advantage of 19.6. Not because of type advantage, but sheer volume of damage.

The next best counter, which everyone should hopefully have by now, is Venusaur with Vine Whip and Solar Beam, with an advantage of 18.3.

Coming up in 3rd place is Exeggutor with Bullet Seed and Solar Beam, with an advantage of 17.6. Finally, Exeggutor has dual grass moves! Sadly, Bullet Seed DoT is awful.

One could argue that Bullet Seed has great EPS, which boosts the DoT of Solar Beam. And Exeggutor has a great attack base stat of 233. Plus, Exeggutor has more HP than Venusaur. And it’s more common.

While all of that is true, Venusaur is still slightly more efficient at trading damage with Vaporeon. Venusaur has better defense so you’re not chugging potions. And most should have Venusaur by now. It’s your call though.


Final thoughts

As a defender, Aqua Tail is definitely the most annoying.

As an attacker, Hydro Pump does slightly more damage. But Aqua Tail has better weave, and less overkill. So it depends on your play style.

To counter, keep using your Venusaur. You could train up Exeggutor if you don’t have Venusaur already, which is a good option too.

Revisiting Vaporeon